Please Read

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Laioken
Please Read

Post by Laioken » June 13th, 2013, 7:19 pm

I do not have the full details available to me, but It has been obvious as of late there has been some hostility towards each other recently where there was none needed, and then a number of people left the skype chat.

Personally I would love for this board to succeed and grow, but if we cannot work together then perhaps most people leaving was the best choice.

However if anyone else would like to at least try and bring everyone back together, I would be most grateful if they would post here to let me know I am not alone in this wish.

I know some have grievances with others, and I feel it is best that they should be brought out into the open, where we can attempt to resolve this as responsible adults. Leaving should only be a last resort when all attempts at negotiation has failed.

Hopefully we can make this work together, it would be a shame for it to die.
Bast

Re: Please Read

Post by Bast » June 13th, 2013, 7:53 pm

I don't feel hostile for anyone. I've had tummy problems last couple days and was sad Yoru just isn't working out for me.

I may come off as mean and if I do it's not meant that way. I poke and pester the people I care about. I flat ignore and don't talk to those I don't. I've come to know that either I'm liked or I'm not. There doesn't seem to be any real in-between. So if I've come off that way to anyone I am sorry. I'm an all in person. You get all the good of me and all the bad of me. I don't hide them.
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Re: Please Read

Post by HorusRe » June 13th, 2013, 8:27 pm

Jai and I appreciate the nature of these issues and we are currently deliberating means to approach this with a responsibility to the community, a maturity that is befitting our position as site administration, and in a spirit that is professional.

We are going to take a few days to discuss this. Please be patient in the meantime.

~ Re
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Re: Please Read

Post by Catriana » June 15th, 2013, 10:32 am

So, as someone who is friends with everyone, and as someone who has been trying to mediate between both sides, I feel I need to say something here.

As I've said to most folks, 90% of the drama happening right now is due to misunderstandings, miscommunication, and assumptions. On all sides. And a lot of it is because no one really knows each other but we make assumptions anyway.

I would not be friends with you all if you were all horrible, backstabbing, conniving, two-faced, two-timing people. All of you are awesome, but all of you, including myself, have things that can be problematic if not discussed.

At first, I wanted to call things how I saw it with everyone, but I realized that could be misunderstood to be taken as an attack on people's character. I'm not sure what the right thing to do here is, so I'm just going to be as honest as possible.

I love you guys. All of you. I love you for your strengths, and your faults. But we all have faults, and I don't think we really look at them, or we get defensive when they're brought up. I can be that way, but I try very hard not to be, because I value your guys' judgement and I know you're not out to hurt me, but rather to help. With that being said:

((Please note with the exception of those who really don't know what the hell is going on, there are no innocent parties.))

- There has been a sense of elitism going on here. That certain people need to abide by DT rules, or that some folks aren't as good as others at RPing. That should not be relevant. At all. Roleplaying is not about who the best writer is or how accurate you're being to a world setting(especially when we've come here to get away from that rigidness), it's about having fun.

- That being said, people have their own ways of role playing. Some people like to go with the flow, start a thread without any real objective or goal. Some people need structure or they find themselves frustrated and wonder what the point of the thread is. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH EITHER OF THOSE STYLES. It is a preference, and there is no 'incorrect' RP preference unless it violates basic RP etiquettes. I am of the latter. I need structure, I need an objective, I need more than just "These guys go here and fuck around" because that's just the way my brain functions.

That is one of the largest reasons why I had such a difficult time playing Riz'riia, and why I don't involve myself in many RPs outside of what I RP with Jai and Horus. It is not because I am snubbing anyone, it's because 1) I can't keep up with the constant influx of posts and 2) I've learned that I need structure. I need an objective. I need a plot.


- I understand people get excited about certain threads, but forgetting others without an explanation is rude. I am guilty of this, but mostly because in the threads I don't post as frequently in, I'm having difficulties playing my character. It is RARELY an issue of me forgetting. Which leads me to my next point (which has officially become my biggest pet peeve):


- Bugging people for posts needs to STOP. I get that it's all jokes and fun, but it's not for everyone. Some, like myself, have been taking it to heart and it's been aggravating people. I've been trying not to be rude about it, but I absolutely hate it and I've been hating it since before I left the RH RP on DT. People will post when they can, and people should not be forced to post in something unless they want to, especially if their muse isn't working for them. If you're that tired of waiting, ask if you can skip their turn.


- People need to stop taking everything personally. There are WAY too many assumptions of character going around for people who don't know each other like, at all. Assuming the worst of someone, without even getting to know them on a personal level, is wrong. Please guys, a little tolerance goes a long way.


- The passive aggressiveness needs to stop. I love you all but if you are upset about something, say something. Even if it's not right away, be honest about it when it comes up. There are a few folks who get angry and say nothing. No one here is psychic, if we do something to upset you, unless you tell us we are not going to know. We just aren't. It leads to confusion and frustration on both ends.


I also have something to say about this on a personal level. People who act passive aggressively frighten the shit out of me. Because for years I had a group of friends who had issues with me but refused to say anything. And it built and built until I was ostracized and then eventually I was ganged up on by EVERYONE and I felt like the shittiest person in the world. If you have a problem with me and do not talk with me about it, I am going to be paranoid around you. I am going to wonder when will be the next time I piss you off and suddenly we're not talking. It frightens me. I do not make friends easily, and I get terrified of losing the friends I have. So please, do not let an issue fester to the point where it poisons your thoughts about that person regardless of what they do.


- There is a lot of misjudgement that goes on. I do my damnest not to befriend malicious, vindictive, manipulative, two-faced, all around angry people. So if nothing else, can you trust in my ability to make friends and start giving people the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping to the worst possible conclusions? It's been incredibly difficult to explain to both sides how something isn't how it seems when no one gives the other side the time of day.


- There's this assumption that we all need to roleplay together and harmonize. Um, no, we don't. We really, really don't. It's okay for folks to stay in their sandbox and do what's comfortable for them. This desire for things to be all inclusive is a recipe for resentment and jealousy. No one should feel obliged to roleplay with anyone.


I'm likely forgetting something, but these are the things I've noticed over the last few months while I've been trying to mediate between two separate parties. I am guilty of just about all of these myself, with maybe the exception of the passive aggressive thing because I usually have a method for my madness and the reason I may not say something is because I love you guys, good parts and bad, and some actions you take/make doesn't impact how I feel about our friendship as a whole. I try to be accepting, but I also realize I need to speak out more and not be afraid of losing friends. I also act rashly about things, which is why I may do something like quit the Utopia chat without a word. I had NO intention of remaining out of that chat, I just wanted some time to myself without having to explain why. But that was wrong of me, and I admit it. I caused more harm than good.

I've caused more harm than good all around. I've kept quiet about things that have bothered me on both ends, and I've blown up about others. I tried to mediate without being too pushy, but ranting about my frustrations to friends didn't help either side. I was a terrible mediator, and for that I apologize.

But ALL OF YOU ARE AWESOME. None of you do things in an attempt to hurt others, and none of you are out to get anyone. There's no conspiracy, no one is saying one thing and doing/thinking another. Most of us are upfront about things, so it's not an issue of everyone being passive aggressive or disliking anyone else or not wanting to roleplay with another person. None of you are like that.

You all do not have to get along, but we can at least strive to have a good, fun environment for everyone. It does not have to end with people leaving, but if neither side opens up and tries to get to know each other without making gross assumptions of character, of course there's going to be misunderstandings.

So in short: Take everything you know about a person that's been irritating you and throw it out. It's likely not what you think, and a fresh start would do everyone a world of good.
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Re: Please Read

Post by Jaibyrd » June 15th, 2013, 12:05 pm

I'm going to keep this quick as a longer response will be coming tomorrow at the earliest:

I would like to make the request of no more 'Utopia' Skype chat.

Like in PtP, I find the Skype chat to be poisonous. People say things without realizing how they sound because chats, as per their nature go quickly and people don't watch what they say. Also what can seem like harmless fun that everyone gets on board with, turns into a domino effect of getting swamped by badgering, which puts people off from participating here on Utopia.

Thus, please, no more 'Utopia' Chat. If you want to talk with each other on skype that's fine, I can't control that nor will I as that would be beyond inane on my part, but Horus and I will not be participating.

HOWEVER, that does not mean that 1. I will not be on Skype - I will be. Just please contact me one on one anytime. However please respect I am not interested in group chats nor wish to be in any.

2. If you have a question, concern or issue with Utopia, or even want to invite or start an RP with me, PLEASE contact me and only me through Skype, IM, PM, etc. Do not contact everyone else first, come straight to me.

Thank you.
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Re: Please Read

Post by HorusRe » June 16th, 2013, 12:24 pm

- run program -
Catriana wrote:- There has been a sense of elitism going on here.
Guilty as charged.
Catriana wrote:That certain people need to abide by DT rules, or that some folks aren't as good as others at RPing. That should not be relevant. At all. Roleplaying is not about who the best writer is or how accurate you're being to a world setting (especially when we've come here to get away from that rigidness), it's about having fun.
Argument conceded and point granted. It should be about having fun.
Catriana wrote:- That being said, people have their own ways of role playing. Some people like to go with the flow, start a thread without any real objective or goal. Some people need structure or they find themselves frustrated and wonder what the point of the thread is. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH EITHER OF THOSE STYLES. It is a preference, and there is no 'incorrect' RP preference unless it violates basic RP etiquettes. I am of the latter. I need structure, I need an objective, I need more than just "These guys go here and fuck around" because that's just the way my brain functions.
By extension of point one it is true that people find different definitions about what "fun" is. Role play is about having fun, but what each person finds "fun" varies per individual. I apologize to the community if my definition differs from your own, as I seek structure in my role play. I am seeking to be a part of the larger story, not necessarily the center of that part of a story, and that requires a definitive understanding of what that story is intended to be. By all involved parties.

I can indulge the "lets just role play and see what happens" agenda, as I'm not opposed to the employment of that style, but it does not compel me to do anything other than focus upon my own character. When there is not a preset goal, something that everyone is ultimately working toward, that is really all that anyone has as a motivation, the advancement of their own character. I, of course, can indulge that for a time, but eventually that gets boring for me and I'll kick rocks.

I love the story. Obviously I love darker stories laced with pain and philosophical principles. I love characters that you can depend upon to carry a specific characterization, that suffer, and that are resolved toward being either black or white. Yeah, I do like shades of grey, I can't name a person that I know that doesn't, but when the metal meets the meat I prefer for the character to remain true to their principle nature and be either black or white.
Catriana wrote:- Bugging people for posts needs to STOP. I get that it's all jokes and fun, but it's not for everyone. Some, like myself, have been taking it to heart and it's been aggravating people. I've been trying not to be rude about it, but I absolutely hate it and I've been hating it since before I left the RH RP on DT. People will post when they can, and people should not be forced to post in something unless they want to, especially if their muse isn't working for them. If you're that tired of waiting, ask if you can skip their turn.
This has actually become one of my personal pet peeves as well. Not because people bug me really, I'm the resident RP black sheep as I can count on one hand the number of members of Utopia that would volunteer to RP with me, but because people bug Cat or Jai about it.

Bottom line is terse. Stop it. End of point.

Catriana wrote:- The passive aggressiveness needs to stop. I love you all but if you are upset about something, say something. Even if it's not right away, be honest about it when it comes up. There are a few folks who get angry and say nothing. No one here is psychic, if we do something to upset you, unless you tell us we are not going to know. We just aren't. It leads to confusion and frustration on both ends.
I am text book passive aggressive. I looked it up once when someone accused me of having that character trait.

From the wiki on the topic.
In psychology - A personality trait marked by a pervasive pattern of negative attitudes and characterised by passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to complying with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations.
In Conflict Theory -Passive-aggressive behavior can resemble a behavior better described as catty, as it consists of deliberate, active, but carefully veiled hostile acts which are distinctively different in character from the non-assertive style of passive aggression.
I fall into three of the four archetypes characterized by Theodore Millon.
Discontented Grumbling, petty, testy, cranky, embittered, complaining, fretful, vexed, and moody; gripes behind pretense; avoids confrontation; uses legitimate but trivial complaints.

Circuitous Opposition displayed in a roundabout, labyrinthine, and ambiguous manner, e.g., procrastination, dawdling, forgetfulness, inefficiency, neglect, stubbornness, indirect and devious in venting resentment and resistant behaviors.

Abrasive Contentious, intransigent, fractious, and quarrelsome; irritable, caustic, debasing, corrosive, and acrimonious, contradicts and derogates; few qualms and little conscience or remorse.
Of particular note is that I am rather proud of this. I look around and I see no end of this behavior in all other people. To varying degrees of course, but it seems to me that this is not the exception to the rule but it IS the rule. So I am really no different than anyone else, I'm only different in the fact that I look at my own behavior, balance it against what is the apparent norm, and accept what the data says about me with a smile.

I just have a few more of these traits that I employ openly, but really, that is only a matter of vocabulary.

Ever notice that people with a certain vocabulary tend to have a certain pretentiousness about them? Ever stop to think that this is intentional? Gaining a respectable vocabulary is work, and being a bit of a wanker about it is the reward for jumping through those hoops.

Anyway, I digress.

I do not look upon my means of dealing with anger as being all that detrimental to the society or the online community. Truthfully, I tend to back away from confrontation more often than not. I back bite, in private, and rant and rave... and then I calm down and can go about my life without causing undue conflict.

The American pastime, and even perhaps the human pastime, is bitching about other people. About work, about school, or relatives, friends, teachers, etc etc etc. We just love to piss and moan about trivial shite. I'd rather do this and let a calmer mind prevail when I'm dealing with the source of that aggravation than to explode in a pique of rage.

I talk A LOT OF SHITE... and sometimes I am prompted to action, but someone usually talks me out of taking most of the actions I would like to when I'm hacked off. So really i just talk a lot of shite. All bark, not much bite.

Maybe that isn't the best way to deal with things. I internalize a lot of frustration and that only builds on itself. I am not as forthcoming as I probably should be... but I also don't profess to be open, just an unapologetic asshole (it is a more accurate description when taking the passive aggressive aspect into account).

I'm gonna keep on keeping on. Just the nature of this beast.

Cat knows where she stands with me. I'll go to the wall to make her happy. So I ain't worried about that.

To all others... well, you know how I am. More so now than before, though if you have been paying attention this admission should come as no real surprise.

Heh.

There I go again.
Catriana wrote:- There is a lot of misjudgement that goes on. I do my damnest not to befriend malicious, vindictive, manipulative, two-faced, all around angry people. So if nothing else, can you trust in my ability to make friends and start giving people the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping to the worst possible conclusions? It's been incredibly difficult to explain to both sides how something isn't how it seems when no one gives the other side the time of day.
Yup. I can do that. I can set aside what I assumed.

BUT, and this is a big but, I am not going to open myself up to social dynamics on Skype. Tried it. Didn't like it. Wont be doing it again. I'm not that kind of social animal. In my world Skype has become the forbidden land.

Might, MIGHT, use Skype to talk to Mads or someone that doesn't have YIM or AIM, but even this would be a stretch for me.

So, if people wanna know me they are going to have to do so on a personal level. PM or IM maybe. Mono e mono.

I really am a bit of a different guy when it's a solo interaction. The group dynamic annoys me, and that sets me in a particular mindset, and that's when I slide into the P/A aspect. Defensive mechanism? Yeah, probably. Does knowing that mean I'll stop doing it? *pfft* Yeah, right, and monkeys will fly out my butt.
Catriana wrote:- There's this assumption that we all need to role play together and harmonize. Um, no, we don't. We really, really don't. It's okay for folks to stay in their sandbox and do what's comfortable for them. This desire for things to be all inclusive is a recipe for resentment and jealousy. No one should feel obliged to role play with anyone.
Very good point.

We really do not need to role play together. That is why I mandated that the PtP RP is now officially the realm of the Powers story. That is why I am plying in that world. That is the story I helped craft and it is personally important to me. It takes someone with a similar desire as I have to enjoy that setting, and that immediately hedges out those that don't think like I do, that enjoy what I enjoy, from those that do.

It pissed me off that there was a capitulation to entertain another world setting in the same board. The Powers are what Jai, Cat, and I developed, and allowing another was a bit of an insult. Like if someone came along and told Tolkien that his world was okay, but that the English and Norse myths he got the undercurrets for the story of Middle Earth were actually superior and were more desired.

I like the Powers story. That's my sandbox. All my toys are where I want them (arranged with an anal retentive perspective to detail) and I get mad when someone comes along and wants their own corner of my sandbox. So now it's the Powers sandbox. Nobody is getting a corner of their own for their own little interpretations of OUR interpretation of the Kernite interpretation of the WotC interpretation of the TSR interpretation of the Tolkien interpretation of the olde English/Norse interpretation of mythology and fantasy.

By extension I won't worry, anymore anyway, about trying to play in other sandboxes. I made an effort to try and offer an olive branch. Thanks to Bast for taking hold of the other end... hope we can still RP in the Whispering Bat... but otherwise I feel shunned and spurned. That's cool, I have no problem with it really, it just tells me where I stand. Your sandbox, you can play in it to your hearts content.

If I'm invited I'll join. I like to RP. If not that sandbox is all yours. No harm, no foul.
Catriana wrote:I've caused more harm than good all around. I've kept quiet about things that have bothered me on both ends, and I've blown up about others. I tried to mediate without being too pushy, but ranting about my frustrations to friends didn't help either side. I was a terrible mediator, and for that I apologize.
*huggles Cat*

You are the only reason both sides are still talking. ;) Seriously folks, whom here wouldn't have just said "FUCK THIS SHIT" and either gone through the membership with the ban-hammer OR just bailed on the site IF NOT for Cat trying to keep things as harmonious as possible?

You are an excellent mediator. I am just sorry you had to mediate. I know its been hard on you, and it makes my heart ache to know I've been a source of that pressure on your shoulders. Makes me feel less good to know, and I do know, that I was not just some innocent victim in the whole scenario. Hells bells, I am my own little entropic/pretentious ring leader of Imps of Nalgas in this sad little melodrama. I'm guilty. I know I'm guilty. I knew then that I was guilty. My compulsion to act was greater than my rational mind that denies such behaviors. So for all of that crap, I'm sorry.

You did a bang-up job. This post proves it.
Catriana wrote:But ALL OF YOU ARE AWESOME.
DAMN SKIPPY!
Catriana wrote:None of you do things in an attempt to hurt others, and none of you are out to get anyone. There's no conspiracy, no one is saying one thing and doing/thinking another. Most of us are upfront about things, so it's not an issue of everyone being passive aggressive or disliking anyone else or not wanting to role play with another person. None of you are like that.
*raises hand*

Well... um... except for my passive aggressive bullshit. ;)
Catriana wrote:You all do not have to get along, but we can at least strive to have a good, fun environment for everyone. It does not have to end with people leaving, but if neither side opens up and tries to get to know each other without making gross assumptions of character, of course there's going to be misunderstandings.
My pm box is always open. I can dole out my YIM or AIM data if that seems like a decent option to others.

I can happily coexist, or I can be engaged if that is desired.

As I said earlier, I have reason to believe I am the main outsider to this community, and I know I've done much to ensure this eventuality. I'll take actions to try and make some corrections of this, but if I am correct (and I am the black sheep), than I am not one to start sending out personal messages and making potentially disingenuous efforts to put hard feelings to rest. It's just not something I'll do.

I'll offer a clean slate to those that will do the same.

Beyond that I'm very happy to just coexist. We share a world with billions and billions of people we don't know, and at least some of those we don't like. This really is no different.

My needs have been mostly met with this post. I'm content. Water under the bridge now. Moving on with life.

- end of line -
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